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The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Printable Version

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The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Vance - 01-15-2016

Hi, I'm Vance from Extraordinary Gentleman. Some people may or may not have a great opinion about me or my tribe, but I encourage you to read my post without any bias towards myself. I'm thinking primarily in the benefit of this great server. DR has put in a lot of his time and effort into this server and he's hands down the best admin for an unofficial server that I've seen, not just in ARK, but in any game that has unofficial servers. I only want to see his server succeed.

So we need to think about why people come to this server to begin with. PvP. The server was previously called ARK-PVP and that name alone is what interested me in the server. I wanted a good unofficial server that was centered around pvp and also had a decent sized community. However, starting as a solo player, I built up a decent base over the course of about 2 weeks and I got completely wiped. I didn't quit but I decided to join up with another solo player and with him, we rebuilt. After rebuilding we got wiped and shortly after, the server wiped. If it weren't for the wipe, I likely would have quit.

So as someone who has experienced being a small time player and also a big time player (being in Extraordinary Gentleman) what drives players away from a server, usually, is being wiped by another tribe repeatedly. They don't mind rebuilding (although some players are more sensitive than others), they mind getting wiped repeatedly. Also, offline raids are cheesy and boring. When people feel like the weeks of work that they put in disappeared without even getting the opportunity of defending their stuff, they quit. Also, it very likely wasn't fun for anyone involved. Raiding someone while they are offline can only be a negative experience for both parties. The raiding party is either frustrated or bored and the offline "defending" party is frustrated when they log in.

So what do I propose?

I propose a system of "declaration" and a raiding cooldown.

A declaration system (which honestly may require a custom mod to avoid "cry wolf" issues) involves a 3 step process.

  1. The attacking tribe must declare to the people they want to raid with a notice that they will be raided.
  2. The defending tribe is given a window of "x" hours to respond and from the moment they respond, the attacking tribe has "x" hours to attack.
  3. After the raid has taken place, the defending tribe is given 24 hours to rebuild from ALL tribes and 72 hours to rebuild from the tribe that just attacked them. Also, during this 72 hours, the defending tribe can declare an attack on anyone that they want, but if they do, their "grace period" is void.
I'm sure there are ways to abuse this (such as an ally tribe declaring and leaving another tribe with a 1 day grace period every 3 days, but that should be easy to see by an admin and taken care of.

This wouldn't effect open world PvP at all. You're still allowed to kill anyone you see at any time. Even at their base. You just cant break into their base and take their stuff unless you declare a raid. This fixes offline raiding to an extent (the defending party knows the time frame that they can be raided) and it also fixes constant harassment. I think it would allow for a much cleaner and fun raiding environment for everyone.

Also, I encourage everyone to help newcomers out in any way possible. Teach them things. Offer advice. We need to maintain an active and constant server population for everyone to have fun.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Zaratz - 01-15-2016

It sounds like an great ide. i vote for an try if admins agree about this.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Vance - 01-15-2016

From talking to a couple of people, I've noticed that some people are against the "declaration" idea. My question is... Why? What about letting the other tribe know you're coming turns you off? All that does is allow them to prepare for a raid and be online for it. Won't that just make it a more competitive and fun fight for both sides? I understand that some people prefer to use the element of surprise to their advantage, but overall, the point of the declaration system is to create an environment that can allow the server to maintain a high server population.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Haggis - 01-15-2016

This is a very interesting idea - but could be difficult to manage and police. Is there an existing mod we can use for it?

I think it would need to be driven from the big tribes downwards. Admins should be invisible in my opinion and only get involved to help with bugs/broken things and lost dinos. The server needs to police itself.

We are planning to make a central "hub" next wipe which will have a trading post/bank and possibly have other things. The hub could host tribe billboards and some other items. Perhaps notification could be an ingame item whereby the tribe declares in global and adds the info to a billboard. This is just a single idea - but i think having in-game info such as this adds another layer to the story. Again, this takes it away from the admin and for it to be controlled in game - also creates another pvp hot-spot.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Vance - 01-15-2016

(01-15-2016, 01:44 PM)GG/Haggis Wrote: This is a very interesting idea - but could be difficult to manage and police. Is there an existing mod we can use for it?

I think it would need to be driven from the big tribes downwards. Admins should be invisible in my opinion and only get involved to help with bugs/broken things and lost dinos. The server needs to police itself.

We are planning to make a central "hub" next wipe which will have a trading post/bank and possibly have other things.  The hub could host tribe billboards and some other items.  Perhaps notification could be an ingame item whereby the tribe declares in global and adds the info to a billboard. This is just a single idea - but i think having in-game info such as this adds another layer to the story. Again, this takes it away from the admin and for it to be controlled in game - also creates another pvp hot-spot.

There isn't a mod for it, but I understand that the server does have a great mod guy who could work on one. A mod, I think, is the best way for this idea to be implemented.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - OuthouseBlumpkin - 01-15-2016

Hey Vance, I just wanted to give you a reply to your statement, I am Fear Mike Hawk from Virtuous, I completely understand what you're trying to say here I was a solo player at first and I'm pretty sure everyone is at some point. But I have 1136 hours into this game and I have been on 4 servers (not to brag) and I absolutely agree with you about DR being a wonderful admin, but I just want to say that this server is highly Player Vs. Player it says it in the name so 99.9% people already know what they are getting into before they join, saying that getting wiped repeatedly is a part of the game and I am not saying the because I do it all the time I'm saying that because I have been the one getting wiped before a joined a large tribe but I have come to realize that that is what the game is suppose to be like. This game was made for huge tribe to fight each other at all costs if you got wiped so be it you would have to rebuild again also with the increase to harvest, tame, and XP its really not hard to rebuild at all I understand if it get out of hand and ruins the gaming experience, and that is when you contact an admin a explain what the situation is. So what I'm trying to say here is if you want there to have a "declaration" please pack your things and move to a PvE server because that is what they do there and you say DR has work so hard on this server and put a lot of effort into it, then leave it the way it is because honestly I see absolutely nothing wrong with the server. So in my opinion if you we put this "declaration" in, i think we will lose a lot of players including myself.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Vance - 01-15-2016

(01-15-2016, 07:23 PM)OuthouseBlumpkin Wrote: Hey Vance, I just wanted to give you a reply to your statement, I am Fear Mike Hawk from Virtuous, I completely understand what you're trying to say here I was a solo player at first and I'm pretty sure everyone is at some point. But I have 1136 hours into this game and I have been on 4 servers (not to brag) and I absolutely agree with you about DR being a wonderful admin, but I just want to say that this server is highly Player Vs. Player it says it in the name so 99.9% people already know what they are getting into before they join, saying that getting wiped repeatedly is a part of the game and I am not saying the because I do it all the time I'm saying that because I have been the one getting wiped before a joined a large tribe but I have come to realize that that is what the game is suppose to be like. This game was made for huge tribe to fight each other at all costs if you got wiped so be it you would have to rebuild again also with the increase to harvest, tame, and XP its really not hard to rebuild at all I understand if it get out of hand and ruins the gaming experience, and that is when you contact an admin a explain what the situation is. So what I'm trying to say here is if you want there to have a "declaration" please pack your things and move to a PvE server because that is what they do there and you say DR has work so hard on this server and put a lot of effort into it, then leave it the way it is because honestly I see absolutely nothing wrong with the server. So in my opinion if you we put this "declaration" in, i think we will lose a lot of players including myself.

I get what you're saying, but what you don't understand is that the server is NOT fine. The population is in the gutter and wipes every 3-4 weeks is not healthy for the server. That only drives players away. The last 2 weeks have been abysmal as far as population is concerned and (not to speak for DR) if the server doesn't do well, then what motivation does DR have to continue putting so much of his time into it?

The server is great but currently, the server population between wipes looks something like this:

[Image: l1Vw0Zp.png]

If cycles like that continue then the server will eventually die due to player burnout. The server may maintain it's few most hardcore and dedicated players, and even they may burn out.

Longevity is what I'm aiming at and I think a change is necessary. Perhaps not this change, but some change needs to be made. If you have an idea, please post it.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - DR - 01-15-2016

Great discussion in this thread and thanks for starting it Vance!

I've been trying to come up with a solution to this problem for weeks now and completely agree that finding a way to soften certain aspects of this game to make our community more positive and accessible is needed.

Declarations of war might be a bit too far but raid cooldowns are a good start - we've been giving those to tribes already (4 days) and I'm going to formalize them into our rules for this season.

Finding a middle ground without alienating the hardcore players is a challenge for sure but one I know we can solve (especially with our community and talented mod developer Jamie!)


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Sly - 01-15-2016

I have posted an alternative method in another thread, that of surrendering. Declaring war only benefits the stronger side - thus increasing the problems of dominance by large belligerent tribes. Plus, getting existing tribe members together for a length of time is hard enough, you can't prepare your enemies as well. The game is not designed this way. Most offline raid issues can be solved by proper base location and design.


RE: The server's best interest (my thoughts) - Vance - 01-15-2016

(01-15-2016, 11:13 PM)Sly Wrote: I have posted an alternative method in another thread, that of surrendering. Declaring war only benefits the stronger side - thus increasing the problems of dominance by large belligerent tribes. Plus, getting existing tribe members together for a length of time is hard enough, you can't prepare your enemies as well. The game is not designed this way. Most offline raid issues can be solved by proper base location and design.

I disagree with your notion that it is only helpful for larger tribes. The point is to give the tribe that is being raided a time window which they know they will be attacked in. Because they have that information, they can make efforts to have some people online to defend. A small tribe, with decent defenses and a few players online that know what they are doing, can easily fend off the attack of a much larger tribe. Even if they lose, it will have been a fun battle for both sides and the losing side is much less likely to quit the game after having a fun PvP experience.

(01-15-2016, 11:10 PM)DR Wrote: Great discussion in this thread and thanks for starting it Vance!

I've been trying to come up with a solution to this problem for weeks now and completely agree that finding a way to soften certain aspects of this game to make our community more positive and accessible is needed.

Declarations of war might be a bit too far but raid cooldowns are a good start - we've been giving those to tribes already (4 days) and I'm going to formalize them into our rules for this season.

Finding a middle ground without alienating the hardcore players is a challenge for sure but one I know we can solve (especially with our community and talented mod developer Jamie!)

You may be right, DR. The declaration of war system may be too large a change and it certainly may scare off the players who prefer a "closer to vanilla" experience. A raiding cooldown is definitely needed. Let's see how that works out. I have a feeling it won't be enough to keep players around after getting wiped while offline multiple times.